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The majority conclusion is that these things are real and under intelligent control.

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None of the evidence that I have examined would indicate any proof at all that we are being

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visited by extraterrestrials.

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Those are the voices of this country's two leading specialists on unidentified flying

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objects. Today's Spectrum 95 proves the controversy and mystery surrounding the flying saucer flap.

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This is Al Moffat, KPR's In-Use, reporting on a controversy heard from outside barbershops

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all the way to the halls of Congress. Is there such a thing as a flying saucer?

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In a moment you'll hear the actual voices of people describing those they think they've seen.

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But first, this message.

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Some authorities claim sections of the Bible refer to UFOs.

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Most agree the history of flying saucers date back 200 years.

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During World War II they were around but called proof fighters.

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But no serious investigation began until the things got a name.

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A private pilot in Nevada named Kenneth Arnold in 1947 saw more than seven disks flying some distance from his plane.

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He was asked to describe them. He said they looked like saucers and the name stuck.

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Therefore he started its investigation of flying saucers.

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These things were generally laughed off as figments of somebody's imagination until the Washington flap in 1952.

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The information officer for the Air Force's investigation of UFOs was Al Chaw.

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He lives near Houston today and is deputy public affairs officer for the Man's Spacecraft Center.

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He describes what happened in Washington that night.

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Well there had been sightings made from the ground. People seeing strange lights in the sky.

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There had been a radar observation that happened on a Saturday night.

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And it was carried in the papers throughout the country the next day.

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The reports of the sightings.

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And that didn't cause too much of a stir. However the following Saturday night the same thing happened.

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The ground radar at Washington International was picking up UFO returns.

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People were reporting eyewitness sightings of strange lights in the sky.

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And the press having gone through this thing the week before were better prepared and they were down at the gate at the Washington International Airport.

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And were asking for answers to their questions on what these things were that were being picked up by radar.

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Somehow they got the word that they were being picked up by radar and so they called me at home and I went on down there to see if we couldn't answer some of the questions.

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And when I got down there why Flight Magazine was there and a few other publications some of the local newspapers.

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And we did ask the Air Defense Command to send up a group of flight of interceptors.

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They did send up a flight. The flight failed to see anything.

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Although we were getting the target returns on the ground and trying to direct them to the targets.

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They failed to report that they saw anything.

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And subsequently they went back to Newcastle, Delaware where they were based.

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Sightings made from the ground people seeing strange lights in the sky.

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There had been a radar observation that happened on a Saturday night.

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And it was carried in the papers throughout the country the next day the reports of the sightings.

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And that didn't cause too much of a stir.

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However the following Saturday night the same thing happened.

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The ground radar at Washington International was picking up UFO returns.

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People were reporting eyewitness sightings of strange lights in the sky.

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And the press having gone through this thing the week before were better prepared and they were down at the gate at the Washington International Airport.

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They were asking for answers to their questions on what these things were that were being picked up by radar.

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Somehow they got the word that they were being picked up by radar.

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And so they called me at home and I went on down there to see if we could answer some of the questions.

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And along about two or three in the morning we asked for another flight because we were still getting these returns.

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And they sent up another flight and this time one of the pilots reported that he had seen a group of lights that we were trying to direct him to a group of targets.

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And he flew towards them and obviously from his report then they appeared to be all around him which he reported to us.

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And then they moved off according to the ground radar and according to his report he said they're going away.

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And he then returned to the base and that's about the gist of what happened in Washington at night.

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Those UFOs were high in the sky but some were reported from other parts of the country more down to earth such as the UFO Mrs. Paul Trent of McMinnville, Oregon said she saw in the early 50s.

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And I have a look up and I've seen this fan and I ran into the house to tell him about it.

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He went one way after a camera and I went the other way after a camera and between the both of us he found it.

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Thank you, Sal. That's what it looked like.

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Well, that's the best thing I could say. It would be just about the size of a parachute without any strings or anything like that.

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It was all flat on the bottom and it was still very color.

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I was about to learn a little bit but there was no smoke, no noise even once.

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How close to the ground would you say it was?

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Well, it was just above the electric light wires away and I just, you know, there was distance and stuff I just don't know.

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It's taken a hover for a while, you know, just like that and just a picture and right just a picture,

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he round the film to re-roll it, you know, to take another one and then it just, it is turned and just took off very fast.

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And the report of Alfred Ernst, a Minnesota farmer of an object that landed.

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It was hard to look at. I suppose about the size of a washing machine cup.

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I mean, one of these washing machines, not a cup but I mean the machine parts, the cup part of it.

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So I suppose it took me four to three feet to go around.

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It was not easier for me to look at. It was very great.

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In Dickinson, North Dakota, several years ago, a UFO skipped around over a drive-in till.

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That sighting had a whole crowd of witnesses, the voice of Randall Young.

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Our wife and I were at the Dickinson drive-in and it was a clear night and a lot of stars were out.

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And the wife called my attention to one star in particular, which was back of the screen a little ways.

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Then she asked me to watch it for a few seconds, which I did.

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And this star moved, what appeared to be a star, moved back and forth sideways several times.

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And then it traveled slowly towards the center of the theater there

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and stopped approximately over the top of the drive-in theater.

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And here again it made several more sideways movements than about the time I figured it.

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It wasn't an airplane because it was just a white light something similar to a star.

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And when it got directly over the theater, I got out of the car and looked at the thing

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and it seemed to be an oval flat ship when it got over the theater.

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You could make out some type of outline of it as the height, I don't know, just exactly.

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About what size did it appear to you then?

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Oh, it was probably about the size of a ditch pan or so.

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It's common for a sighting to spark a chain of other accounts.

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Many of them vary widely from the original.

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Listen to this housewife's account and make your own judgment.

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We were up on the second floor and I looked out the kitchen window and I saw this thing hovering near the Dickinson Watertown.

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And it glowed a yellowish-orange.

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At first I thought it was the moon, but I've never seen it perfectly squared one quarter of the moon.

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I took another look and I thought, well, I better get my husband up because it was so...

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By the time I decided to leave the window to go get him up, the thing started to change shape.

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And as it changed shape, it grew in rockets and the smoke of an orange-yellow billow from the bottom of this thing.

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And then it just moved off and it needs to be redirected.

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An account of that north Dakota flap is told by Airman Don Gabauer, who is in the control tower of Menott Air Force Base when reports began.

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I was working for the midnight shift.

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And this person called in and they said they thought it shall plain go down.

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They said they saw some bright lights in the air and then they spotted it going down and then further down it got the brighter light start.

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And so we took a report on that to begin with and then about 30 minutes later we got a call from a mobile unit from the Air Police that guarded the medical sites out there.

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Well, they said they saw the same thing but it went down and it came straight down from... they figured about 20,000 feet came down to about 500 feet above the ground.

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And then they said it shot east of their heading towards to Menott. I don't know the town name there.

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But anyway, then it went straight, I think I got down and went straight across for about 5-10 minutes.

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Then it went back up and headed back west again.

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Now this couldn't possibly have been a plane?

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No, it wasn't because I checked Rathcon with their radar from just covering five... right around 500 miles to the area around here.

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And they didn't have nothing except for B-52 in the air and that was our own B-52.

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In 1956 a group of men with more than a passing interest in flying saucers formed a private non-profit organization which they called the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, NICAP.

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From its start this organization has been headed by a retired marine pilot, Major Donald Keyhole.

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He and his co-workers and some 5,000 volunteers conduct their own investigations of signings.

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Keyhole has been, from the start, very critical of Air Force investigations and what he calls the withholding of facts.

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Recently Keyhole called a news conference in Washington to say these things are from outer space.

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He cited many of what he termed prime examples, such as what happened in Exeter, New Hampshire last year.

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Recently, in the latest Exeter case that's in New Hampshire and probably most of you are familiar with that, the Air Force did publish an answer and later retracted it.

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Now for those of you who may not be familiar, this was reported by two veteran policemen of Exeter, New Hampshire and a teen age group of 19 years old who first saw this device and went to the police.

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They went out to the scene and, sceptically, and when they got there they found exactly what he had described.

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A very large object had been close to the ground with light flashing in sequence, creating such a blinding glow that it lit up the ground for about 300 feet.

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It even caused animals in nearby buildings which couldn't see this object to get upset, horses kicking their soles and running and so on.

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Now this was made, we made this report public and it was picked up by John Fuller of Senator, Senator D.R.R.E.R.E. of Literature and later published in Rook.

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And somehow that had more effect than any group of sightings that we've put out in the last five years, probably because of his prestige.

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And the fact that he didn't have any axe to grind, he really went up there and taped interviews with all his witnesses and came back and said there seems to be no doubt that this thing was there and it's real.

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The Air Force at first said that this was a mistake caused by low flying aircraft and the police officers were very much incensed by being called incompetent.

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They stated, well this was wrong, they were not low flying aircraft, this was definitely an unidentified flying object.

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The same thing happened in another case that very same night which was not so well known down in Texas.

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On the night of September 3rd two deputy sheriffs saw strange objects in the sky and they parked their cruiser with a light saw into the front of the highway to watch it.

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They were Brasoria County Chief Deputy Billy McCoy and Deputy Sheriff Robert Good, both of Angleton.

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We asked Chief Deputy McCoy to describe the encounter.

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As we were leaving Daly, I noticed all over on the right hand side of the highway there going towards West Columbia, I noticed a bright purple light over there.

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It looked like it was right on the horizon.

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We were talking about various things and I called this light to do attention knowing that he was real proficient with that area over there.

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He said, well it's probably a light over the pop-up station or a light over to a red step and put quite a few little mercury vapor lights in.

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I said well it just looked too purple to be a mercury vapor light to me.

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We continued driving and didn't stop at that time.

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I kept watching the light and as we traveled down the highway there appeared to be a blue light that seemed to appear right out of this purple light.

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We were just almost parallel with the light and as we drove, well this light, the blue light seemed to move further over to the right.

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We pulled over to the right hand side of the road and stopped and got out and looked at the light briefly.

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The blue light had moved a good ways from the purple light at this time.

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We made a U-turn there and stopped on the other side of the highway and got out and looked at these lights through the darkness.

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At this time the light seemed to float up in the air just a very few degrees above the horizon and just hanged suspended there.

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So we got back in the car to drive back towards Damon to take one of the back roads and go towards Samberard River to get closer to it.

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We had driven about a half a mile back towards Damon.

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We almost stopped again. We didn't pull off the highway.

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It was just barely creeping. There was no traffic on the highway.

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And the dude had his window down on his side and he observed the lights again with the obnoxious and they seemed to still be in the same position as they were.

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So he laid the obnoxious down and said, well you watch it now. I'll drive on back that way.

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And just as we started up, he said that all the other lights still there and I said, man they're not there. They're right here almost.

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The object had moved just in a blink of an eye. It seemed like where they were to ride the side of the highway.

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Purple light was illuminating the inside of the troll car, ground all around us.

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And here this thing was just about, looked like it wasn't anymore than 100, 150 feet in the air.

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It was right at the side of the highway, completely motionless.

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There was a bright, almost full moon, almost directly overhead.

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The moon illuminated the object which would see the outlying birds distinctly.

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We could see the shadow on the ground underneath it.

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And my gosh, it looked like a football field.

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The flying saucer controversy raged anew last month when hundreds of people around Hillsdale, Michigan saw a series of strange objects or things.

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The county sure affair said this.

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The bright light, the blueish green light so on, a maneuverability from side to side up and down.

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And a saucer like shape to it, such a manner, and when it's settled off the farm and observed this object, it moved down into the swamp area.

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At the same time we had six other cars out there and a University of Michigan professor, they also observed the same thing.

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And everybody described the thing as the same. No sound to the darn things at all.

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Do you have any ideas of what they might be?

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I wish I did. I've had more phone calls here this morning you should take a stick at.

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I'm going to put a call into the defense office in Washington and see if they can offer some answers for me.

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I'm going to have to call a government on this.

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We've got a lot of people who have seen this, kind of over 50 people who have seen this at different times, different intervals.

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And everybody describes the thing the same way.

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Do you think that these might be visitors from outer space?

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I don't even want to guess at this. I don't believe it yet, but I can't doubt my men.

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According to one of my officers this morning, he should share if I've seen it, I still don't believe it.

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A co-edit at the University in Hillsdale saw the thing and described it like this.

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Sarah Robichel.

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Last night around 11.30 we've been watching the storm that was taking place here.

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We looked out our second floor, door and window and saw it appear to be a house almost in the middle of the Arb.

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But we realized there wasn't a house there so we kept watching it and it had a yellow glow and the lights were fluctuating.

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And we watched it for a while and it was hovering or seemed to be because the lights were fluctuating and almost going around.

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And so we called the field defense because we'd been asked to call and give a direction and a time.

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And he called the police and as they would drop up the Arb road their red lights bothered whatever we were seeing because it moved up and down into the right and left.

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And the lights fluctuated even more.

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And then they came back down the road and the civil defense man drove around the back of our door and his lights shone across the Arb.

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And this also bothered it because it became very bright and then it became very dim and it started to move back across the horizon.

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So we kept watching it and the civil defense man came up to our room to watch it and he watched it for about a half an hour and he said it was, he would say it was definitely a UFO.

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That civil defense director is William Van Horn.

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His report is considered by NYCAP one of the most authoritative ever received.

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Appeared out and looked out the open window.

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Here the UFO was approximately a thousand to fifteen hundred yards from us.

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I observed this with binoculars to the right was a red light and to the left was a white light.

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A red light at the time that I first observed it was a dim orange in color and the white light was a quite dim white.

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The beacon from the airport sweeping over the area was coming around there and the objects seemed to get within a certain distance of the bottom portion of the beacon ray of light and became stationary.

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It appeared as if it were attempting to avoid this light from the beacon.

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It would then remain there for just a few moments and then start its descent back down and as it were coming back down to the ground approaching the ground the lights would become dim.

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This in essence is what we observed at that time Tony and through the binoculars I estimated the distance between the two lights to be approximately twenty twenty five feet.

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The Air Force's chief UFO investigator is a Northwestern University Astrophysics professor named Jay Allen Heineck.

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He went to Hillstale, investigated and reported the citizens had seen swamp gas.

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Whether Heineck was right or not there are sure to be many co-eds and citizens of Hillstale who remember that incident the rest of their lives.

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For instance, Madeleine English do you believe in UFOs?

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About one o'clock I was looking out the window and I saw white glowing objects with red lights and it wasn't an airplane.

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Yes I believe in UFOs.

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Joe Wilson were you frightened?

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Of course I was frightened. Wouldn't you be?

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I'm not sure.

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Well um, you see something strange out your window especially out of girls dorm window and lights and you don't know what they are you watch for two hours you're frightened.

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You've heard a series of UFO sightings that have been reported confused if so you're not alone.

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In the next section of Spectrum 95 we try to get an answer to the simple question what is it?

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We've subtitled it would you believe swamp gas but now let's pause for the news.

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Spectrum 95. Part 2 the flying saucer flap what is it?

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The question what is it seems simple on the surface but with unidentified flying objects it's complicated by the fact that there are no materials ever taken from a UFO.

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Only reports of eyewitnesses.

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The director of NICAP Major Donald Kehoe has little doubt what these things are here's his opinion.

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Now these have been evaluated these sightings have been evaluated by our staff, by scientists, engineers and their various fields.

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The majority conclusion is that these things are real and under intelligent control.

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Now in that group which has reached that conclusion there is another group and it's the majority of that one which believes that these things must be extraterrestrial because they are so far superior to anything we have.

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They base this on absolutely tracked speeds by radar, visual tracking and combinations.

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Now either all of these witnesses, every one of them, all of the thousands of witnesses here and abroad are absolutely wrong.

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Honestly wrong but they're wrong.

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They're unable to distinguish what they see in the sky and I'm talking about pilots now.

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They cannot read radar scopes as well as they should.

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They can't track things with the Sun and the other lights or modern tracking devices.

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They make mistakes. All of them are wrong.

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Now one single man is right or else these things are real and there is secrecy and the facts are being withheld.

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Flying saucers arouse so much public interest there are several organizations established and many salaries paid to find out what they are or just to talk about them.

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Another who makes his living from flying saucers is the editor of a magazine called Flying Saucer News published in California.

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James Mosley tells his opinion.

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These things are able to make right angle turns. They make no noise such as our jets make and they travel with speeds which are incredible.

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Even today so I don't believe it's anything that we have here on Earth as far as the known Earth governments are concerned.

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You're convinced they think.

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Absolutely solid objects yes sir.

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Why?

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Because in some cases they've even bounced bullets off them. In many cases teenagers out in California a couple of months ago shot at one of these things and heard the ping of the metal before the object took off.

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What might be there? U.F.O. means unidentified flying object.

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Well of course we think that it could be from another planet but we can't prove it.

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It could be some part of our natural environment of the Earth which is unknown to our present day science.

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If I knew what flying saucers really were I'd be perhaps in Washington as an advisor to the government. I certainly don't know what they are.

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As we mentioned the chief air force investigator is Dr. J. Allen Heineck.

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None of the evidence that I have examined would indicate any proof at all that we are being visited by extraterrestrials.

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How many unexplained cases are there?

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Something like 646 out of 10,000.

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But you're confident there are explanations that which just have not yet been discovered is there?

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I think there is a possibly whole spectrum of explanations and one should not jump either to saying something is utter bilge and nonsense

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or jump to the other conclusion that we are being visited. There are probably high prophecies and answers in between.

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But Kehoe tells of a case he knows that convinces him flying saucers exist.

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This was a report by the commander of a Navy Super Constellation Transport which was flying in Atlantic from Newport.

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And then came in from Europe of Uganda bringing back Navy crews that have been on duty in the European area.

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They were flying at 19,000 feet and about 100 miles out of Uganda when they saw some lights down and apparently only surfed through water or very close to it.

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The captain banked to take a look and immediately these lights spread out very rapidly and disappeared except for one which came straight up toward them

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and of course increasing in size and when it got to their level it could be seen as a huge flying disk about 350 feet in diameter.

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They described it as roughly four times the diameter, four times the wingspan of the Connie.

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This object came at them so rapidly that the commander and everyone in the cockpit thought they were going to be hit head on.

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It flipped to one side past the wing and came back so swiftly that no one knows whether it merely stopped and reversed or whether it made a lightning like turn and came back.

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But at any rate within a few moments it was back pacing this Navy transport.

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It did it for about 10 seconds and then it tilted up and climbed out of sight at a speed of about between two and three knots.

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That was in 1956 but I regard it as a especially important case because this commander, they were all interrogated by Air Force Intelligence at Gander and later by Naval Intelligence when they got down to protection.

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Two days later the commander was visited by a scientist from a super secret agency in Washington and that's as far as I'll go to naming it but you can guess what it was.

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He had a folder of photographs, not sketches but photographs and he showed these to the commander and the commander said, but it wasn't just about like this one.

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He picked out a photograph of a flying disk and then he asked the scientist, said I had always thought this was nonsense until the other night we were scared to death by this thing and what's going on.

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And in effect the scientist said thank you commander and picked up these photographs and left.

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In an effort to balance this program with all views I asked the Air Force for a spokesman to present more of the official reaction to UFOs.

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I was told the Air Force has no spokesman because I was told every time a spokesman is put on the air or in print somebody tries to make the Air Force look silly.

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Incidentally the CBS television network will present a special program this summer concerning UFOs and the Air Force has named the spokesman for that program.

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I asked Lieutenant Colonel Hal Harlin, chief of the broadcasting branch of the Air Force office of information, why them and not us.

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He said they had promised to make the Air Force look good.

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That may be one of the few times a federal official has openly stated he will help those who make him or them look good.

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The Air Force did provide me with a 12 page pamphlet concerning their investigations which works under the code name Project Blue Book.

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From that pamphlet this statement.

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To date the firm conclusions of Project Blue Book are 1. No unidentified flying object reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security.

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2. There has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as unidentified represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present day scientific knowledge.

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And 3. There has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as unidentified are extraterrestrial vehicles.

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You'll recall that Al Chow was the information officer in the early 50s for the Air Force and he investigated about a dozen incidents during that time.

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What does he personally and as a representative of no organization, what does he think they are?

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In the early days of this investigation I was like most everyone else I was, I believe that a startling piece of news was eminent that we would find that these things were interplanetary spaceships.

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And the evidence at that time at least the eyewitness sightings seemed to point that way and so perhaps it was wishful thinking in a way because man is always intrigued about the possibility of intelligent life on other planets or from other star systems visiting us or

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and perhaps giving us the benefit of a very advanced technology.

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However, the lack of these things to come to pass over the past 20 years, I am now quite convinced that this is a natural phenomenon of some sort that will continue.

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I don't see any end to the controversy of whether they are interplanetary vehicles or not interplanetary vehicles and I don't think anything can be proved from a scientific standpoint because there is a lack of material substance that can be analyzed.

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Dr. Bruce Rogers is professor emeritus of mechanical engineering from the University of Texas and incidentally a member of the board of governors of NYCAP. What does he think?

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I mean there is no use of arguing about the matter, just get some measurements if we can.

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We found most university professors in such fields as physics, astronomy and so on extremely reluctant to comment on flying saucers. Even some who told us flatly I don't believe in the things refused to say that on the air.

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There were several though who felt the public has a right to know how scientifically trained minds regard these UFOs. Such a man is Dr. Tom Hudson, assistant professor of physics at the University of Houston. Again, the simple question, what are they?

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Certainly out of all of the observations that have been made, some people saw something and I don't know how much more than that you can say. Some of the observations have been made by people who were trained to make observations such as a deputy sheriff or in some cases say an airline policy, something like that.

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Someone else who is a trained observer but does not have a scientific background. The trouble with trying to then break this further down is that the person who is trying to analyze and discover what this object was that was seen has to take statements from a non-scientific person and extrapolate these statements into what he thinks the scientific is.

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This is a scientific explanation of what this individual saw could be and the problems here are just insurmountable. In fact, in any other form of scientific research this would be the, it just wouldn't accept such an observation as being an invalid scientific observation but this is the best you have in this case so you try to go from there.

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Richard Hall, Assistant Director of NIKEF, disagrees.

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A number of astronomers, physicists, chemists, mathematician, biologists and other trained scientists including engineers have reported UFOs. One section of our report will detail their sightings.

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The director of Houston's Burke Baker Planetarium is Dr. Arman Iramadage. KPRC's Ray Norton spent quite a bit of time with this astronomer discussing what UFOs may or may not be. Dr. Iramadage gave this answer to Ray's question of what are they and the answer is so complete it may stand as a basic lesson in flying saucer watching.

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By definition we say UFOs unidentified flying objects. Unidentified means that they must not be known celestial objects or known celestial phenomena or known natural phenomena. And of course in the planetary field, in the astronomical field we know the celestial objects, what they might be.

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Many people report even meteors or bolides that is very large meteors or fireballs that are seen in the sky. They stream through the sky and sometimes in red or blue or white or green. They're immense fireballs.

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They're not seen frequently but every now and then they do speak through the sky and they're large objects that strike through the earth's atmosphere and burn up. And as they burn up of course we see this tremendous glow. These of course are identifiable. We know and we can by good description and through several observations be able to identify these and therefore they are no longer UFOs.

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The reason I want to bring this up before answering your question more directly is because we do get a lot of calls.

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Does the planetarium get calls?

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Yes. We do get calls frequently about these things and also the Air Force frequently will call us when they get a report and they want to see if this report might have a celestial explanation, something astronomical.

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And so I just want to take advantage of this point right now and indicate some of the things that have been seen and are definitely celestial. Another important thing that is seen frequently is the planet Venus.

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The planet Venus is an extremely brilliant planet in the mornings now. It can be seen before the sun rises around 5.30 in the morning and it's so extremely brilliant, so much more brilliant than any other star or other celestial object that people frequently are just surprised at seeing this tremendously bright object in the eastern sky.

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And since the Earth rotates, it rises in the east and goes higher and higher in the sky until the sun comes up, so they see it move. And for the moment they might not be aware that the whole sky is moving because of Earth rotation.

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So this is another object that we frequently get, another object that is referred to as unidentified until they check and find that it could be the planet Venus.

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There are other celestial objects. A person, for example, noticed that there was a star close to the moon and a few hours later the star was at a different place in the sky with respect to the moon.

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The reason for this is that the moon revolves around the Earth and over a period of one hour an object will move one Earth diameter away from its previous position.

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That is, the moon is moving toward the east. The star would move to the west from the moon, one moon diameter every hour.

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And so these objects are seen to move and again they cannot explain what it is. And of course here's a known object, just a star. And the motion of the moon causes it to move that way.

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Other objects that people see are satellites such as the Echo 1 and 2 in Pegasus. Some are going in a polar orbit, that is moving roughly north and south and others east to west direction, or vice versa.

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So these are moving star-like objects. Some go rather brilliantly.

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Are there particular times in the orbit when the sun will catch them and make them glen?

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Exactly. In fact, that's another thing that makes them strange. They expect to see it lit up from one horizon to the other.

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But it might be that a satellite will glow close to the horizon and then blink off because it goes into the Earth's shadow.

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It's eclipse in effect by the Earth's shadow. Others will glow only while they're close to the zenith.

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Because they're low enough that only when they are at a high point will the sun's glow reflect on them.

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And others, of course, at different portions of their orbit will glow.

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So these objects, it seems, usually will occur only once. It will not blink twice.

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It will, while its eclipse will be dark, it will brighten and then of course become dark again.

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So satellite is another celestial phenomenon that's frequently misinterpreted because people do not look up the sky enough and realize what some of the things can be.

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And of course, as we said, meteors and goliads are moving very quickly and there are not too many goliads, but nevertheless that is frequently reported.

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The planet Jupiter is a very brilliant one. It does not twinkle. None of the planets, when they're relatively high in the sky, twinkle only.

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When they're low, close to the horizon, do planets twinkle. Stars twinkle.

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So twinkling objects usually are stars and if they're, give a study like their planets, Jupiter attains because people don't realize that the planet can be so bright.

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It's reported as an unknown.

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Now, getting to your initial question, which I avoided, with good reason.

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What are these UFOs?

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These that cannot be identified as natural phenomena, either celestial or meteorological, that is a weather type of thing.

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So I might mention, before going to this, you see I'm trying to avoid your question.

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As anyone does.

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A sun dog is another object that can be seen during the daytime. There's a halo, sometimes two halos, around the sun.

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And sometimes one tiny portion of this halo, 22 or 46 degrees away from the sun, just a tiny portion of it glows and it may be red or some other color of the rainbow.

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Or just white. And so it appears at these two angles from the sun, it's due to refraction from the high ice particles in the sky.

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And so sometimes these appear as unknown objects.

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And in other words, you would say that a great percentage of the many thousands of sightings can be contributed to astronomical and celestial phenomena.

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Yes. In fact, recently you might have heard of this object that struck a car on Highway 10.

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That's right.

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We don't know what it was, we investigated it. We searched through all the areas where the grass was relatively sharp, but there are areas that have cat tails and deep grass.

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And so the object might have ricocheted off the road. And so we cannot report on that.

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But that could have been a meteorite. And of course it was in hopes that it was that we did this search.

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But now once we eliminate all these, and that's where maybe several many thousands of these objects end up as being, we arrive at these that are unidentified really cannot be explained by science today.

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There was one, for example, two colonels saw they were command palates working in the Pentagon and it's reported in Project Blue Book.

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They saw two objects, two delta wing objects, streamed by them extremely fast.

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And they knew that the speed of these, they know the delta wings. They knew the F-86 is perfectly well.

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And this I think was in 1952. It was during the around three o'clock in the afternoon.

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And yet they were going towards Salt Lake City over Carson Sink in Nevada.

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Yet they knew that nothing, the no airplane could have gone at that speed.

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They saw no canopy or tail on it.

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This was going at a tremendous speed by their plane. They worked for the Pentagon.

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They knew perfectly well how to recognize anything that the United States has in the air.

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These two objects streamed by them extremely fast.

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Speed and took a slight bank and then disappeared.

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There were no known F-86s or other air, possible airplanes that could have been that close to them.

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This is a UFO, a valid UFO. At least it cannot be identified.

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And then the question that you asked me is difficult to answer.

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We don't know what celestial phenomena can explain.

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Certainly we know of no celestial phenomena at this time. Science does not know.

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That could explain these types of sightings.

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And it's for this reason that no one wishes to be, to come in on as to what they could be.

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We just don't know people who are highly scientifically trained and should,

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should certainly identify the known objects that it could possibly be,

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will not say what it was. They know what they saw and they describe what they saw.

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And certainly this is the reason that right now the sector of the Air Force is being prodded into establishing a committee,

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possibly of civilians, to study these phenomena, what they are.

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Of course I can't say what they are. All he can say is that these people must see something

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and that they're not creating a hoax or lying.

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They're seeing something and we just can't define what it is.

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Finally we ask our favorite question of a man who had seen something that cannot be explained.

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Chief Deputy Billy McCoy, what was it?

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I have no idea what it was.

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I have a firm belief in the fact that it was something from this earth.

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I don't believe that the United States government or any government on this earth could have a craft

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like we saw and could have kept it from the public this long.

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I don't believe that it had a craft.

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I do believe that it had a craft of this kind that it certainly wouldn't have been down in the area at night that we saw at the end just fooling around.

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Still confused?

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On the next section of Spectrum 95 coming up in a few minutes,

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we'll discuss some of the theories and the charges of Air Force secrecy.

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But now let's pause for the news.

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Spectrum 95, Part 3, The Flying Saucer Flap, Energy Pockets and Little Green Men.

367
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:17,000
Somehow long ago the conception of little green men became attached to flying saucers.

368
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:22,000
The effect is more serious than it sounds on the surface because many persons,

369
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:27,000
fearing ridicule by their friends, will spot an object and refuse to report it.

370
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,000
Because jokers will say, did you see any little green men?

371
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:37,000
Don Burliner is a freelance science writer who makes his home in Washington.

372
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:43,000
But most of his time is spent away from the typewriter and out as a volunteer for NiCAP.

373
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,000
He recently talked about men from other worlds.

374
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:51,000
The great majority of these reports are in the hoax category.

375
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:57,000
As the major mentioned, the late George Adamski made quite a stir some years ago,

376
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:03,000
writing books about his fanciful trips to various planets in flying saucers

377
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,000
and the golden-haired space beings that he had met.

378
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:11,000
We investigated this man quite thoroughly because of all the stir that he created

379
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:18,000
and discovered that most of his claimed background was completely fraudulent.

380
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,000
He claimed at one time to be an astronomer from Mount Polymar.

381
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:28,000
Now this is rather impressive on the face of it, but it turns out that he was located at Mount Polymar

382
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:35,000
and he had a telescope, but the telescope was parked right outside his hamburger stand.

383
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:39,000
This is unfortunately the sort of thing we do run into.

384
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:47,000
However, there is at least one case of a reported occupant of UFO, which seems quite substantial.

385
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:52,000
The Air Force agrees with us that the case is definitely not explainable as anything conventional.

386
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:59,000
It occurred in April of 64 in Sacoro, New Mexico, where a highly respected police officer

387
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:05,000
who had had quite a bit of experience tracking meteors with the New Mexico Institute of Meteoristics

388
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:13,000
reported seeing two small suited occupants near a UFO,

389
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:21,000
after it left imprints in the ground and scorch marks on the mesquite bushes and the earth.

390
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:27,000
Dr. Heineck, the Air Force investigator, was on the scene and our man was on the scene.

391
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:33,000
When Dr. Heineck left, he admitted openly that he was more puzzled than when he had arrived.

392
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:40,000
This is perhaps the only case where an occupant of one of these craft has been reported,

393
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,000
which has really stood up under investigation.

394
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,000
Could there be life elsewhere in this universe?

395
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,000
Armand Iromadege.

396
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:54,000
It's my assumption and I think I'm right that it's not beyond the realm of possibility

397
00:49:54,000 --> 00:50:02,000
that there is some form of life on another planet in our galaxy or around another star, another sun.

398
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,000
Is this right?

399
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:13,000
I think that is quite possible. In fact, it's probable that among the billions of stars in our own galaxy

400
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:20,000
there would be many that would have planets. In fact, many of the stars have other stars going around them

401
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,000
and these are called binary stars.

402
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:28,000
So it's not at all impossible that in the same fashion in which so tremendous,

403
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:33,000
such a tremendous number of stars do have other bodies going around them,

404
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:40,000
that these other bodies could be totally inert, that is, planets that go around them.

405
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:47,000
And these planets in all probabilities somewhere in our galaxy, among these billions of stars,

406
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:54,000
certainly it's within the realm of possibility that there could be life on some of these planets

407
00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:02,000
that have evolved through normal changes of temperature as these planets would form.

408
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:14,000
One of the real puzzlers in UFO Investigating History has been several instances of radioactivity found after a sighting.

409
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,000
Major Donald Keyhole.

410
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,000
Some of those there is no question about. They've been down.

411
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:25,000
In one case the ground was found highly radioactive. One of these things touched a few moments.

412
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:31,000
This was up in Virginia about a year and two months ago.

413
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,000
It was one of those reports which, well, first heard that, that was nonsense.

414
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,000
And then two DuPont company engineers went in there with Geiger counters and checked them.

415
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,000
They said it was very hard.

416
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,000
Dr. Bruce Rogers.

417
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,000
What could cause this?

418
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,000
That's the name that I'd like to know.

419
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:52,000
I mean, if we could tell what caused this, what?

420
00:51:52,000 --> 00:52:02,000
If there was radioactivity, if there was other things, we might be able to get a start on what kind of a problem these things have.

421
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,000
If there is such an anger-supplying factor.

422
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,000
Al Chow.

423
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,000
Here we're making conjecture now that there are solid objects.

424
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,000
I'm not sure anymore that there are.

425
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:19,000
When I say a phenomenon, it could be a source of light or could be energy in the atmosphere.

426
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:28,000
And I don't know very much about that, but some of the scientists feel that there may be some blobs of pure energy floating around.

427
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:34,000
Maybe perhaps as a function of something that comes from the sun.

428
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,000
Dr. Tom Hudson.

429
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,000
Perhaps.

430
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,000
All you can say is that, maybe.

431
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,000
I think that geologically there are some other forms of energy.

432
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:56,000
I don't know the form or context it takes, but I have heard of the concept of ball light, which is a glowing circular ball of some type of plasma.

433
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,000
That may have been observed in our atmosphere.

434
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:07,000
But what it is, what causes it, where it goes, I don't think that it's generally known or accepted in any particular theory.

435
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:14,000
As you heard earlier, one of the charges that Major Donald Keyhole has leveled against the Air Force is secrecy.

436
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,000
All of them are wrong.

437
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:22,000
Not one single man is right, or else these things are real.

438
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,000
And there is secrecy and the fact you're being withheld.

439
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:34,000
Major, do you believe that if the Pentagon knows about whatever the truth here is, that the President also must inevitably know about it?

440
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:40,000
And therefore the President is at the top of the one who is responsible for not letting the public have the facts?

441
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,000
Can there be any other suggestion in what you say?

442
00:53:43,000 --> 00:54:00,000
I don't believe it's absolutely certain that the President has all these details, because I remember back to when President Truman called for a briefing during some excitement during his second administration, I believe it was.

443
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:08,000
He had known nothing about it except what he read in the newspapers, according to what this intelligence officer told me.

444
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:13,000
And this Captain, it was Captain Edward Ruppelhead of the project at that time.

445
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:23,000
He gave the President a thorough briefing and said that they didn't find any definite proof that these were or were not space devices.

446
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,000
They certainly didn't see any evidence of hostility.

447
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,000
Therefore they weren't too much concerned.

448
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:39,000
That was, however, doing their work concerned, because they were the terrific outbreak of sightings right at that time, and they were all over the headlines all over the country.

449
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:46,000
Since the Air Force would not provide us with a spokesman to answer this charge, we had to look elsewhere for an answer.

450
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,000
We want to make this report as objective and unbiased as possible.

451
00:54:50,000 --> 00:55:02,000
Actually, NIKEA provided the answer, a tape recording from 1961 when the Air Force did have a spokesman, then Major William Coleman, who had this to say about the secrecy charges.

452
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:06,000
Again, let me remind you that this was five years ago.

453
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:12,000
There is no truth to the charges and allegations that the Air Force is withholding information from the public on this subject.

454
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:21,000
We do, in some cases, withhold the names of the people involved in the sightings because they would attract the idle curiosity of sensation seekers.

455
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:31,000
In some limited instances, we will withhold information on our investigative techniques because we use these techniques to evaluate other intelligence information.

456
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:42,000
And finally, we withhold information in some limited instances because we could possibly reveal sensitive areas within our air defense system.

457
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:47,000
In any case, withholding of information is done for strictly legitimate security reasons.

458
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:54,000
Al Chopp was among the first to take part in Air Force investigations. We asked him about the secrecy charge.

459
00:55:54,000 --> 00:56:05,000
Well, I don't think that the Air Force does put out the sightings on a regular basis, and I don't know the reasoning why they don't.

460
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:15,000
I know we did not when I was with the project. The person making inquiry had to be specific about which sighting he wanted the details on.

461
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,000
If he could do this, we would give him the details.

462
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,000
All of the details?

463
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,000
All of the details pertaining to a particular sighting that he had to identify.

464
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:33,000
However, most of the sightings in those days at least were made by pilots and military personnel.

465
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:38,000
And of course, the general public didn't know they had been made or reported.

466
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:44,000
But I don't think the Air Force is deliberately withholding information.

467
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:49,000
I think the information is not forthcoming simply because the Air Force doesn't have it.

468
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:57,000
I'm not sure if the Air Force had the answer to this. In the evening they would be more than happy to scratch it off their books and explain it to the public.

469
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:03,000
Dr. Tom Hudson from the University of Houston then made this logical observation.

470
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:09,000
I can say no advantage to the Air Force to withhold information.

471
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:20,000
If it were a foreign country's device, then the Air Force could probably get money to build one of their own from Congress if they could show that somebody else had one of these.

472
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,000
If we didn't get one, we were going to be behind.

473
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:35,000
If it were from outer space, we could perhaps get more money in the space budget to make contact with these alien beings and look at all of the scientific advancement they could provide us.

474
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:41,000
And we would have to give them all the money we would save about taking advantages of their progress.

475
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:46,000
Our examination of the flying saucer flap has been, by necessity, a brief one.

476
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,000
And we only skimmed the surface of officials.

477
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:56,000
But in all fairness, it should be pointed out that we did not encounter any Air Force secrecy in our investigation.

478
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:02,000
We did note several curious quirks that, in my opinion, could be changed to the betterment of all concerned.

479
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:09,000
First, for information on Project Blue Book, we call the project's headquarters at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.

480
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:16,000
They were cordial, but when I said I am a newsman, Project Blue Book referred me immediately to their information officer.

481
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:26,000
This, I found out in a moment, was not at Wright-Patterson, where the investigations are being conducted, but at the Pentagon in Washington, D.C., nearly 400 miles away.

482
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:34,000
Not even at the Pentagon is there a Project Blue Book officer, but the reports are disseminated through the Air Force Information Office.

483
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:45,000
Since almost every Air Force base in the world has its own staff of information officers, this seems a strange departure from the normal, especially because of the high interest of this project.

484
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:50,000
The Air Force did provide me with their Project Blue Book, which was a disappointment.

485
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:58,000
It's only 12 pages long. Of those, one page is devoted to listing those materials which the Air Force no longer has available.

486
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:04,000
One page is a list of suggested reading material on astronomy, physics, and UFOs.

487
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:11,000
Incidentally, this may be part of the bad blood between NiCAP and the Air Force, because Donald Keough's books are not listed.

488
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:17,000
Two pages of Project Blue Book are given over to sightings of meteors, and the last page is blank.

489
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:28,000
The seven remaining pages of Project Blue Book are a description of the Air Force's program and a statistical summary, but no specifics on UFOs since 1947.

490
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:39,000
In comparison, NiCAP's book entitled The UFO Evidence is nearly 200 pages long, contains 200,000 words and many specific examples.

491
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:44,000
The Air Force's is free, NiCAP's costs $5.

492
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,000
More in a moment.

493
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:52,000
The Air Force's is free, NiCAP's costs $5.

494
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,000
The Air Force's is free, NiCAP's costs $5.

495
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00,000
The Air Force's is free, NiCAP's costs $5.

496
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,000
The Air Force's is free, NiCAP's costs $5.

497
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:11,000
What can be done to find out the origin, whether earth-locked or extraterrestrial, of these mysteries?

498
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:25,000
There are several plans, some reasonable, some, well, for instance, a retired Army Major named Wayne Ahos says he is negotiating to place observers in the 600-foot-high space needle at the Seattle World's Fair site.

499
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:37,000
This former Army Intelligence Officer says he plans to place two spotters armed with telescopes or binoculars on both sides of the tower and keep them on duty night and day to look for flying saucers.

500
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,000
Is the Air Force currently doing a competent job of investigating?

501
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:45,000
Congressman George Miller, Chairman of the House Space Sciences Committee says yes.

502
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:49,000
Congressman Mendel Rivers, Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee says yes.

503
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,000
And this rules out a congressional hearing on the matter.

504
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,000
So we ask Arman Iromonagay.

505
01:00:55,000 --> 01:01:13,000
Should I think that the Air Force is being concerned with the defense of our country and certainly wishing to advance our scientific knowledge as much as possible of anything that can possibly be seen in the sky?

506
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:20,000
That branch of government that could best handle this investigation.

507
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:37,000
However, I do think that possibly a committee at congressional level, that is possibly appointed by the President or Congress, should have the right to, would actually be the body that would determine policy, overall policy.

508
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:46,000
And the Air Force should be the one to carry out the studies. They're the best qualified. They certainly have the personnel. And I think they're the ones that should do it.

509
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,000
Dr. Rogers of the University of Texas feels differently.

510
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:56,000
Do you think another government agency besides the Air Force would be better qualified to investigate?

511
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,000
Personally, I'd rather not have the government in it at all.

512
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,000
You think a private organization such as this is going to get?

513
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:06,000
I think a private organization. Because as soon as you get into a government, then you've got politics.

514
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,000
I'll chop.

515
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:13,000
I think the Air Force is doing everything it can and everything that is possible.

516
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:29,000
You have to remember you're dealing with citing reports. You're not dealing with objects or something that's a physical matter that you can hold in your hand or analyze or put under a microscope, a measure.

517
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:34,000
These are things that scientists needs to do in order to tell you definitely what these things are.

518
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:48,000
I think on the basis of investigating citing reports verbal from people and the scattering of still pictures, the Air Force is doing everything humanly possible.

519
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:53,000
And they certainly are doing it in a serious vein. I don't think they mean to ridicule anybody.

520
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,000
But it's kind of an impossible task.

521
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:23,000
My own opinion is they're doing as good as anyone else and probably better than most would do because of the vast physical facilities that are already in place that they can call on to track an object if it makes a radar pattern or they can call on a fast fighter to go up and see what this object is or if there's an object in this particular point in the sky that's been observed.

522
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:27,000
And no other federal agency could do this without going through somebody.

523
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:31,000
Here's how the Air Force investigated the Brasoria County episode.

524
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:39,000
Major Leach came down from Ellington and he brought an artist with him.

525
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:47,000
We went over to that area. They drawed a whole sketch out of the area, put in everything that was there.

526
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:58,000
The two have the craft as we described it and the strategy that we described it took a bunch of radiological readings over there.

527
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:06,000
They didn't find anything. We had had a couple of showers of rain since then.

528
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:21,000
The area was scrutinized very thoroughly by them and it took statements from the rest of the group myself.

529
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:28,000
This was on the floor there to write Paterson, Professor Heineck, Carl Meheel on the telephone.

530
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,000
I spent probably an hour on the phone with him going over all this.

531
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:41,000
He was trying to link all of the degrees in our position and how we saw it.

532
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:51,000
This has been the last that I've heard of them but those people treat this very nicely.

533
01:04:51,000 --> 01:05:02,000
We're just as concerned about this as we were and I couldn't ask for any more cooperation or any better investigation.

534
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,000
They've done it and I know it.

535
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:12,000
The Air Force plans to delve into its investigation even more thoroughly.

536
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:17,000
Dr. Heineck says he will pick a score of unexplained cases for closer scrutiny.

537
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:30,000
I picked some 20 cases. Nothing particular about 20 is the number but just I thought let's see what are some that have not been explained and which have possible scientific paydirt in them.

538
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:34,000
And I think those I would recommend that they be looked at quite closely.

539
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:41,000
The flying saucer flap has flapped so loudly recently that the Secretary of the Air Force has been stirred to action.

540
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:49,000
A civilian board to investigate the Air Force's investigations in an attempt to determine whether charges by Kehoe and others are valid.

541
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:57,000
There was a lot of discussion this morning, Mr. Secretary, about a civilian board that would pick out some of the more interesting cases to investigate.

542
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,000
How's that going to work?

543
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:07,000
Well, Air Force has a civilian scientific advisory board. We've had a panel of that board examine the way that we've been handling these investigations.

544
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:20,000
They may say they're quite satisfied but they think that there may be some more scientific data to gain by making an investigation in further depth by some such panel and I'm certainly willing to consider that.

545
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,000
I think it may be very desirable to do.

546
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:25,000
Does that mean you're going to go ahead with a civilian group?

547
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:29,000
We have already and I think we will continue it and perhaps expand it.

548
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:33,000
A final observation on this flying saucer flap of 20 years.

549
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:43,000
When I contacted the Air Force Information Office while investigating the charges by Major Kehoe, I confronted Lieutenant Colonel Harlan of the Pentagon with Kehoe's statements.

550
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:49,000
Harlan said that Kehoe is a private citizen and entitled to his views like everybody else.

551
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:57,000
Kehoe is not only a private citizen. He heads the largest private organization in the country investigating these reported sightings.

552
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:03,000
In addition, he is a retired military officer, a pilot, and a firm believer in flying saucers.

553
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:11,000
Perhaps he has gone too far in stating without sufficient scientific evidence that these things are from outer space.

554
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:23,000
But it seems the nation might be better served if this private organization and the Air Force were to patch up their differences, bury the swamp gas so to speak, and consolidate their efforts.

555
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:28,000
Such a president has been set with the Civil Air Patrol, again with civil defense.

556
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:39,000
NYCAP might be more useful if the Air Force were to brief NYCAP members on how to investigate sightings, the questions to ask, official reports to submit.

557
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:55,000
A study of these things by 5,000 volunteers all over the nation reporting facts to a hardcore of top flight scientists and engineers could do no harm in such an investigation would certainly provide more information than say a congressional hearing, for instance.

558
01:07:55,000 --> 01:08:03,000
The differences between NYCAP and the Air Force seem to be surmountable, with only a little compromise on the part of each.

559
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:13,000
This is Al Moffat, KPRC News reporting on the Flying Saucer Flap.